Go Back   Harley-Davidson Forum > Questions & Answers > Fuel Injection

Notices

Fuel Injection Questions Concerning Fuel Injection Systems

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

"Best" ECM Tuner?
  #1  
Old 12-04-2007, 09:00 PM
timbono
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default "Best" ECM Tuner?

Mike,

I realize HD signs your checks, but I am hoping you will be completely objective when answering this question:

I have an 07 Dyna with V&H Slip-Ons, Nes Big Sucker a/c, and the Fuelpak tuner by V&H.

Will I gain anything in realized HP and torque by switching to the SERT or PC III?

I am aware that both can better fine tune the bike, but will I be pleased with the Fuelpak over the long term? My gol is really just a better sound from the exhaust, and a bit more HP, and a smoother throttle.

Would SERT do more than what I need or want, or should I stick with what I have?
Reply With Quote

RE: "Best" ECM Tuner?
  #2  
Old 12-04-2007, 09:00 PM
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,506
Default RE: "Best" ECM Tuner?

No problem answering such questions, we sell other tuning devices in addition to SERT when they satisfy the need. Additionally, we want to take into account your already made investment in your current system and be sure that, when a change is recommended, it truly is worth sacrificing that investment while incurring the new cost.

So, having said that, if your are satisfied with the Fuel Pak, I would hesitate to recommend the change to SERT. If the FP map your are currently running is an exact match to your components it may be quite good. The dyno numbers may not be greatly improved by the change because the dyno chart only represents a WOT acceleration and this area may be fine with the FP. The exhaust sound is more function of the components than tuning, but can be modified slightly with the FP the same way we would with SERT (enrichening idle, the faceplate buttons on the
FP allow for changes in each programming cell).

Now for the "buts". SERT does give access to many more tuning variables and in theory would allow a finer tune (timing, tuning constants, AFR, O2 Bias, cranking fuel tables for example). There are also questions (and some evidence) about devices like FP, PC and other's conflicts with the closed loop system. It seems contrary that we install a piggyback modifier, changing values, while the main system ECM is trying to change them back (the base ECM is still trying to do what it's programed to do, the PC does go some way to reducing some of these conflicts). Also, issues like heat, surging and pinging are not always well addressed by such devices because these require access to tables not available through these devices.

You may want to save such a decision for/if when additional performance changes are made or anticipated and make inclusion of SERT as part of those changes. As performance becomes more aggressive, these tuning differences will become more accute.
__________________
Mike Stegmann
Performance Consultant
Team Latus Motors Harley-Davidson

Checkout our huge inventory of Harley-Davidson Parts, Clothing and accessories.
http://www.latus-harley-davidson.com...-Parts-22.html
Reply With Quote

Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?
  #3  
Old 01-05-2008, 09:00 PM
jlwoods99
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?

Mike I have an stock 07 ultra I plan to put an Dougherty power Pacc on the bike and probably some slip ons. what would you recommend also a fuelpak or a sert one over the other and can I order from you and install myself. I'd really like to cool the engine down and get it breathing better, so if you could recommend a slip on that wouldn't make the bike a lot louder with better breathing.
Reply With Quote

Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?
  #4  
Old 01-07-2008, 09:00 PM
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,506
Default Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?

We like SERT vs the Fuel Pak. It will do a much better job of addressing your heat concerns. The V&H Classic round slip-ons are my personal favourite but the Rush slip-ons work very well also on stock motors. We have SERT maps available for both at $50.00/map, available through our Internet Sales Department. Our maps are specifically designed to address some of the most common owners concerns. Contact "jolaine.eakins@teamlatus.com" if you wish to purchase one. Check out the "EFI recalibration FAQ" at the top of this catagory for more info.
__________________
Mike Stegmann
Performance Consultant
Team Latus Motors Harley-Davidson

Checkout our huge inventory of Harley-Davidson Parts, Clothing and accessories.
http://www.latus-harley-davidson.com...-Parts-22.html
Reply With Quote

Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?
  #5  
Old 01-09-2008, 09:00 PM
jlwoods99
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?

Mike, I didn't realize I needed a Race Tuner first. My dealer said $459.00 but he only recommends a "download"? for $150. and its matched to the bike ( they don't have a dyno ) so I'm not sure what he's talking about.

Thanks for your help Jim

Reply With Quote

Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?
  #6  
Old 01-09-2008, 09:00 PM
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,506
Default Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?

Yes, SERT maps require SE Race Tuner to load into the bike.

The H-D stage downloads are correct if you use the H-D mufflers specifically for each calibration, model and year. They will work with many aftermarket mufflers but will be less correct and could exhibit rideability issues (seems to be rare base on customer's satisfaction). They are $150.00 and can be downloaded via H-D Digital Technician. Many owners are perfectly happy doing this.

These are, however, still emmisions cals and do not allow the ability to address concerns you've expressed (heat). This is NOT to say you will have ANY issues at all! But, if you do, you will not be able to address them. This is why I recommended SERT in my earlier post.

__________________
Mike Stegmann
Performance Consultant
Team Latus Motors Harley-Davidson

Checkout our huge inventory of Harley-Davidson Parts, Clothing and accessories.
http://www.latus-harley-davidson.com...-Parts-22.html
Reply With Quote

Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?
  #7  
Old 01-14-2008, 09:00 PM
08SERK
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?

Mike as my name suggests I have an 08 SERK - FlHRSE. I am very happy with this bike and it's performance- however I am a bit worried about heat issues. My thinking may be flawed, but if the 96" motors run hot I imagine the 110" will run very hot even with the oil cooler. I really do not want to change pipes or air cleaner - like I said I am happy with performance. Should I use a fuel management system to deal with air fuel mixture and heat issues? I installed an oil temp gauge to keep track of heat, but so far in winter temps of 30-50's the hottest I have seen is 235-240 while dealing with some traffic. Thanks in advance!
Reply With Quote

Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?
  #8  
Old 01-15-2008, 09:00 PM
Mike's Avatar
Mike Mike is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,506
Default Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?

The heat issues have been mostly a rider comfort thing and have not shown to be harmfull to the longevity of the bike (I trust H-D's extensive testing on this). It is an attemp to burn off emmisions in the exhaust (I believe) and may not neccessarily show as elevated oil temps, even though exhaust temps are high. On oil temps, the newer TCs are designed to run with higher oil temps vs EVs. It simply shows that more engine temp is being transfered to and carried out by the oil vs being retained in the heads, valves, etc., which is one of the primary functions of the oil.

Some owners have opted to purchase SE Race Tuners to allow the ability to address these and other individual concerns. We have also modified SERT cals and/or tuned totally stock bikes with SERT with very good results (as far as owners expectations and issues). I do not recommend other tuning devices if the main reason for doing so is to address the above issues. They do not have the capabilities of SERT and many either do not allow direct control/editing over the specific tables required to address these issues or they defeat/eleminate these features. Last, with SERT, owners then have the ability to tune for possible future changes/upgrades. Other devices or calibrations can achieve the desired results but they are less specific and risk incomplete satisfaction.
__________________
Mike Stegmann
Performance Consultant
Team Latus Motors Harley-Davidson

Checkout our huge inventory of Harley-Davidson Parts, Clothing and accessories.
http://www.latus-harley-davidson.com...-Parts-22.html
Reply With Quote

Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?
  #9  
Old 01-15-2008, 09:00 PM
08SERK
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: "Best" ECM Tuner?

Thank you for an informative answer!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:21 AM.

Copyright © 2008-2009 Harley-Davidson of Portland